Faith, Music, and Brotherhood with P.O.D.'s Sonny Sandoval and Tattoo Artist Legend, Mike Kellerman

Andy
And hang out with Los lonely boys.

Sonny
Oh, nice.

Andy
Those guys, you know. And they're playing in Vegas and stuff.

ANDY
And I hadn't seen them play in a long time. You know.

Andy
I'm watching them throw down, you know, watching Henry throw down. And, you know, I've been watching his.

ANDY
Moves, you know, and I'm like, that's bad. Yeah. Was.

Andy
What's up everybody. Welcome back. This is a very special day. I'm super excited to have two amazing human beings, amazing spirits with me, great friends. And. And I know you know who they are. Mike Kellerman and Sandy Sandoval. This is, an amazing time to have them here in the room with us. And we just want to, share a little bit about, about our connection and who they are and what they're doing.

Andy
Sonny, thank you so much for being here. Brother. Brother. Thank you. Welcome, Mike. Mike, welcome. And I, you know, I'm going to get, get past this. This is podcasting and get to, to our brotherhood brother talk here. You know, both of you guys have been, monumental in my life. And every time I talk with you guys, you guys share, inspiration with me.

Andy
And, a life changing inspiration, not just, you know, you know, I heard something. Something really good that this guy said, you know, like, life changing, directional, knowledge and wisdom and faith and, and that's what I want to share with those, people that, that, that watch and listen to, you know, the things that I do and in my world and in my YouTube, space and stuff, young artists, that I'm teaching, you know, through the foundation, and try to, this the purpose for this is to give them, not just, you know, songwriting knowledge, production knowledge, or, you know, music instruments

Andy
and things, but also once they write the song or what they're writing the song about, you know, what inspires that? And I believe it's the people they watch that are out there. I believe it's the leaders, you know, the people that are, you know, kind of doing what they want to do. They're listening to what they're saying.

Andy
And, you know, there's to me that we need to to lift up the mentors, the proper mentors, right, that are saying the right things and that, you know, have the right hearts and there's, there's not enough of that lifting up, you know, and I know that you guys, have done that for me and are doing that consistently for others.

Andy
So I just wanted to lift you guys up. You know what I'm saying? You and, have an opportunity to share this with, you know, with my audience, and therefore, you know, God within the world. But, you know, I wanted to to, you know, open this up a little bit on on how we connected because, you know, touring with Santana, you know, all of a sudden, I'm, I'm, you know, hanging out, and I'm hearing these these, these these songs and, just some, you know, amazing music and and this song called America pops up and, and, and I'm like, wow, this is amazing.

Andy
This this is, this is, this is the stuff. And I'm, you know, knowing and meeting people around around your world and stuff. And all of a sudden we're on stage, you know, out, in, on the road together. And, what an amazing time that was. That was a song that you did, you know, with Carlos and stuff, but, I know Carlos had a big influence in your guys's, you know, musical space and and stuff, but I wanted to hear a little bit of, just, you know, about, like, what was the first.

Andy
When was the first time do you think that we connected out there, sonny? And on the road? Or when? Maybe with you, with Carlos. And then that's when I started seeing you guys.

Sonny
Yeah. I want to say, did we first meet at the Latin Grammys or do we meet before?

Andy
I think you know what? You're right. It was the Latin Grammys.

Sonny
Yeah, because I think we were. Because we did the song together. Yeah. America. Yeah. And then we had bumped, into each other in London. Another time you were on tour. We were staying at the same hotel. Yeah. And, you know, obviously we're huge Santana fans. So the fact that we were staying together was super cool, and it gave us a chance to hang out and stuff like that.

Sonny
Yeah, I think we in Latin Grammys, we we did America. And we jammed it all for the first time. Yeah.

Andy
Yeah, yeah, I had heard the song. I love, love the song and love how you guys had, you know, just brought P.O.D. and and made, you know, Santana, like, really, really now, you know, like, like Carlos just, you know, he could play practically on anything, but, you know, when he plays on a real good bed and a real good sound, you know, it was just inspiring, you know, to see you guys, you know, do that stuff.

Andy
And. And then when we met in London, I could remember and I'll always say this, you know, like, like, everyone was hanging out at the bar. We get into town, and all of a sudden, I don't I didn't think I knew you. You guys were there. All of a sudden you were there, and I got all excited.

ANDY
And stuff, and.

Andy
And then and then, you know, and at the time then, you know, Mike and I, you know, connect. And Mike, you know, you're, one of the, the leading tattoo artists, you know, in the industry now and, and I'm, I'm grateful to have your ink, man. You're like, you know, my my, my my master, you know, tattoo artist, you know,

Mike
It's been a long time.

Andy
Right? And, Man, what what got you into tattooing?

Mike
What got me into tattooing? Well, I've always drawn since I was a kid. And, you know, my uncle, he was in the Navy. My dad as well. My uncle had some really old school, black and gray, s, s pieces and, and I saw him and and since I was young, wasn't.

Mike
That's cool, man. And, and I like motorcycles and tattoos. And so as I got a little older and a little more rebellious, and so it really came from, the rebellion side, and started a band as well. And I was young, I'm . I moved away for a while, and, you know, the singer and I ran out of cartoons.

Mike
I'm sorry, dude, weren't you cartoons? I didn't know anything about tattoo shops on. You know the first thing about tattoos? I just knew I liked the art. It was on the skin, and it was punk rock, you know? Yeah, and so on. And so he told me that, you know, his brother made some homemade drawing, you know, and all along, so me never showed me and, you know, myself.

Mike
So I'm, I'm just doing it. And, you know, the first tattoo on day one was a needle and thread, and it was on my on my arm right here. Yeah. And, we're like that far into my skin because I, you know, you know, under the hood, like, oh, man, I'm sure you know. So, I just immediately fell in love with it.

Mike
So it was a way for, for me to kind of. Just do art because I it, you know, and I was able to do it in a realm and I'm comfortable with, you know. Yeah. And people I wasn't much of I'm a, I'm a people person, you know, and pictures and things I went through as a kid.

Mike
I, I yeah. So it kind of opened that, for me a little bit, now I'm like too much, yeah. You know, just punk rock music and rebellion really got me into tattooing. And, and then it really changed my life.

Andy
You know, because when we were in London, you had a mobile kit. Yeah. And had given me, you know, it was my birthday. You gave me a beautiful piece, and, Man, I felt like blast, man, I like, I was like, wow. The first to see such a, a beautiful piece of art, you know, like that. I always wanted one, you know, and, and for me, though, two, I remember when when you were giving me that tattoo, we had, like, a serious talk, you know, like, and, and, you know, it was it was, you know, about faith, you know, and the Lord and, and after that, it just, I don't I

Andy
think that, like, nothing was ever the same, like, everything I looked at things, you know, like, I was ready to receive. I was ready to start to look at things in new light and, hence, you know, something that that you have happening now, you and sunny, you know, when your, your new TV show, right? You know, off point, which we'll talk about in a little bit, but how people open up when you get to tattoo, you know, is is pretty, pretty amazing, you know, and and how, you know, you were you were tattooing the, the the neighborhood.

Andy
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, you know, giving, giving like and I was.

Mike
Giving them, in their image.

ANDY
Hey, man, it's pretty cool, man.

Andy
I mean, like, like, you know, like, early on, everyone, it's a it's a big part of everyone together. And I, I wanted to share a little bit about that. How your guys's unity, you know, from the neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. And and all of your boys, all, you know, came together and then here comes, you know, pod, you know, doing groups in the neighborhood and then out of state and then on the radio and then boom.

ANDY
Right.

Andy
Major success. Bro. How did that.

Sonny
Happen? I mean, Mike was he was like he was saying he had went away for a while. But we, you know, we grew up together since elementary. And so we've been through a lot together. And when Mike came back to San Diego, he was going through his hard times. You know, just dealing with addiction and even homelessness.

Sonny
And, we had started the band just as teenagers, and we were playing shows, and he popped up to a show one time. And I had seen that he was pretty bad shape, you know, and at the time I was, was living with the, few of the other homies. We had our own little spot we were renting out.

Sonny
And then I was just like, hey, man, just come stay with us, dude. You know what I mean? Just sleep on the couch or whatever. We'll figure it.

Andy
Out. Yeah.

Sonny
You know, we'll we'll we'll figure out life together, you know? And and he ended up getting sober and completely turned his life around. And we were still young kids. We were still just trying to figure out things. But he started up his tattoo game again, and he was making machines, from not even real machines, just whatever he could and whoever was brave enough to let them do it.

Sonny
You know what I mean? So when you look at all the homies now, we all have, I mean, garbage, you know, obviously now he's a master craftsman. Yeah, exactly. Who else is he going to practice on? Yeah. And he would, you know, if we were brave enough to let him do. And we were still all teenagers back then.

Sonny
Yeah. And he just started tattooing on all of us and at the home, because even still, back then, tattoos were still taboo. And that wasn't like it was today. You know, you it's like you're either in prison and gang or it is rock and roll with punk rock, you know? Right. Exactly. And so when people started, you know, he started tetanus up and all the homies in the house and people started to see what he was doing, they wanted it.

Sonny
Yeah. And people would come over to the house and it was still.

ANDY
Illegal at the time. I could.

Sonny
Be tattooing, you know, guys and girls out the house. So everybody's got their little bit of a mark on them.

Andy
And from what I remember, you have some history too, in Chula Vista, right? Like, you know, having one of the first tattoo.

Mike
Shops,

Andy
He fought for it.

Mike
In . I opened up the very first shop. And, it was funny because, when I opened it up, you know me, this is old school time, you know? So it wasn't like today, and there wasn't so many, regulatory things, you know? So. So I opened the shop because I knew a couple of teenie officers, and, and they were really cool with me, and they said, do you know, for your shop?

Mike
And I'm like, well, I want to know. But San Diego doesn't regulate, you know, to Mr. Anderson. And the thing for tattooing. So it was a police regulated and business. So I was going since, you know.

Andy
It was a police regulated.

Mike
Yeah. It's, you know, like, it's like stuff, right?

Andy
Yeah.

Mike
Yeah. They're criminal.

Sonny
In, in Chula Vista was still very old school. You know, a lot of old people in Chula Vista and downtown area, very conservative. So, you know, to have tattoos just meant trouble. I don't want to. They didn't want a tattoo shop in the middle of their, you know, souvenirs, sewing shop, all this stuff. But he fought for it.

Mike
Yeah. So, so when I opened that first one up, and, you know, in the sky, it was so busy because I was the only one. And so I had to learn how to get fast. Right? You know, came from.

Andy
Your speed, man. Because, you know, I mean, it's amazing how you you're you're tattoos are phenomenal. Thank you. You know, and, your artwork is phenomenal. And to see what you do in the time that you do it blows me. And anyway because they're like, oh, no, I like some people come back and they ask how long that to take you.

ANDY
You know, or maybe.

Andy
You know, two months.

ANDY
Yeah.

Andy
They keep on going back for lines and then stuff in my head. You're not getting this armor for hours.

Mike
Yeah. It's, you know, I'm building. I'm from traveling, you know, and traveling, you know, just and having done, you know. Yeah. And it has to be good, you know, it can't be. It can't be like, oh, well, Yeah, it was just. We just got done. No. Yesterday. Okay. Yeah. Focus, focus, focus. You know, and then train your body when you work that way, you really just.

Mike
Yeah. Some less times. No more hours straight. Yeah. And, and. Yeah, I'm known in this industry. Me when the fastest in the world. Yes. I'm not trying to brag. You know, tendencies is what it.

Andy
Is, but I support that.

Mike
Thank you. But, Yeah. And setting aside and fighting for the shot. And that was, that was another shot into the the st on Third Avenue as well. And I had to fight for it. You know, they came at me pretty hard when they came to me. Gangster.

Sonny
Like Third Avenue's the main drag.

ANDY
Yeah.

Mike
Yeah I got my, you know put all my legal stuff in and everything was good man. Intense man stuff. I won't go into detail trying to slam anyone. But they did some some good stuff and and I knew I was right and the Lord was in my corner and I'm praying hard and I'm saying Lord, if this is what you want and then I'm going to fight.

Mike
No and no, you know, then tell me what if you got your foot on your ankle or on your wrist, whatever you want to go. And I'm like, all right, so I hired an attorney. Then I want to know the whole story in front thing jumped on it and I opened my shop and they backed off. You know, you know, me and Paul and you.

Sonny
Open up the shop before you went on the road, or.

Mike
The one in your first one in earnest.

ANDY
Yeah.

Mike
I opened that when Miyamoto started to fight.

ANDY

Sonny
Because he went on the road with us. Right. So I'm trying. I'm just. I'm trying to remember the timeline. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, he was he was toying with us when we were doing independence of two. But then once we got signed and then had success on our first.

Mike
Stint, I mean.

Sonny
Yeah, and he, he went on the road with us and, I mean, he was tattooing it. It shows left and right. And even we had a different guy due to who was doing base testing. He was a piercer. And so these guys were. Yeah, people were coming to us doing it on the.

ANDY
Yeah. And then they go to.

Sonny
The hotel afterward and get tattooed of his stuff. Yeah.

Mike
I mention, I mention it because we will always stop in Tulsa has a real soft place for me now. I've been going there from a certain two years now because Sally's uncle, lives there. And so when we when going through town.

ANDY
To you.

Mike
When has some convenience, I mean, you know, and, and just rest and and dude, I wanted to talk to, you know, and and that's how it started in Oklahoma for me. Like you were saying. And then, then we came home, and in , when I opened up my shop right, they were getting ready, going to corn to Europe, you know, and, and I was, I was taken from marker somewhere.

Mike
I didn't really know where a guitar player, so I thought, okay, y'all tune in and, you know, whatever. And, you know, all the technical things, on this rock, and, you know, the thing now and I know and, and so I remember it was a hard time because I known Sonny and, you know, since we're in kindergarten.

Mike
Yeah. You know, I grew up with cancer, and they've always been in my corner, you know? Yeah. And, you know, maintaining their emotional here and, and working for professional good. And so, and so when we came in on time, of, of of trying to reach a nothing when, when finally starting. Right. That's when I mentioned something because I hadn't moved on this thing for a year.

Mike
Right. Then I got into having drugs, doing crystal meth, and then I'm in the canyon and just, you know, just, I don't know, I just don't, you know, not knowing what's up and give my life to the Lord. He took it all in, went for me. And one day, you know.

Andy
I remember you telling me that because, you know, I had my, my, you know, my sobriety, my walk to sobriety as well. And I asked you, hey, you know, do you do this? You do that. Yeah. You know what? I just the Lord just did it like this. Yeah, that's. And that was amazing.

Sonny
Rest is a rare story. I mean, I've been around, you know, sober guys and, everybody, and, you know, some people have to the lifetime journey, you know, I mean, it's not always God answers in different ways, you know? I mean, but he's one of those guys, especially, you know, I think the kind of drugs he was on and what it was doing to just body this is life and in general, but to really surrender to the Lord and then say, hey, you got to take this away.

Sonny
And.

Andy
And to truly, truly.

Sonny
Yeah. And to watch it in this life, you know, because I've seen, you know, you see people in virtually even sobriety, they struggle all their lives. And it's just it's a battle they're going to they're going to have to fight for the rest of their lives, you know? And for Mike, I think it's kind of his character alone, even with tattooing, his determination to to do it and say, this is what I'm going to do.

Sonny
And, you know, once he sets his mind to something, he rose to it.

Andy
And so I know that too.

ANDY
Yeah, yeah.

Sonny
But so he, I mean, he, he built a name just tattooing rock stars throughout, you know, the some of the highest points of our careers. And just again, back then, it wasn't still it wasn't like everybody was tattooed back then and people started to in the music industry or the rock and roll industry, he they always knew Mike was going to be with us.

Sonny
And so no matter what what we were on, he was tattooing crew guys, you know, rock stars, everybody, because it was still new back then. Yeah. You know, and this was something years ago. Mr.. Years and now I mean now, you know, tattoo shops everywhere. And it's not as taboo as it was, but.

Andy
What a message for youth. What a message for, for, someone to, to to hear your story, you know, and and to be inspired and to know, like never giving up. Yeah. You know, to to to walk in faith, you know, to believe in faith, to lean on, on, on your faith and, and to and that, you know, the best is yet to come, right?

ANDY
Yeah. I mean.

Mike
When you hit rock bottom, you know, and I wish it doesn't have to happen that way. For one thing, for me, you know, for me. And then, you know, when I went to jail, you know, and then in jail for long, I went, you know, I mean, for two days, you know, and I got sick, I got pneumonia because of my punk rock attitude.

Mike
No sense in the lawyer.

ANDY
So.

Mike
Right. So no came up the stroller and said, you know me, no influence. And he gave me one of his moves. That's a big deal, bro. You know. Yeah. And and then considering this, give me the Bible. And I knew, you know, and I knew from Sunday school and my friends have me there, but I live my life for Christ, you know, just, you know, I'm the living God.

Mike
But when I saw him, I. For I know the Bible. Yeah, that's what I asked the Lord. I said, Lord, I know you didn't saved me from cancer to be here. Then in in cynicism and time, accidents and continents to be here. I said, I'm tired and drive in my life. Once you take the wheel and I sit in the back and I'm following you.

Mike
And that's when you took it away from me.

Andy
Okay.

Sonny
Yeah. And we've been walking the journey together ever since. So you went if you don't, you know.

Andy
Like me, I said I want to know what? When, when did in your life did you, did you, you know, find that moment?

Sonny
Kind of like what? Mike said. You know, we grew up, you know, in the neighborhood. And we had gone to church, and I, I started to see my my family started to make changes in their lives. And so I always, you know, I always believed in God. And, you know, at some point, I'm sure I accepted Jesus into my heart.

Sonny
But, you know, you're still a kid, you know, how far does that go? What does it really mean? So I've always loved God, have always had respect for God. But when my mom, when I was , my mom was diagnosed with leukemia and cancer, and she ends up passing away at . Okay. And, so that's when it kind of became real to me.

Sonny
And then obviously my story is just that's at that same point of just brokenness, just asking God, you know, hey, just my mom, you take my mom that I don't know what I'm going to do, you know? Yeah, I'll get lost in these streets. And so, at , I just made it and like, a, a recommitment to God and just said, hey, I'm just going to try it, you know, but I but I watched, you know, my mom and people, my family and did I, I can't stand religion, you know, the progressive religion and just certain things and and.

Sonny
Yeah. And so I made it, you know, when I, I prayed to God it was in the parking lot of the hospital. My mom was sick at home. And I just said, Lord, if you are who you are and your real, you know, like, and if I just, I just don't want the Jesus that I see in the world, you know what I mean?

Sonny
And this religious, you know, the, the hypocrisy of it, you know, the crusader world, everybody in the name of Jesus. Yeah. This I just want I see Jesus and I see God is in my mom's life, even in, in in all of her sickness. And like, this is peace. This is truth, you know, and and I was just like, Lord, if you can, I want that.

Sonny
But that's the only Jesus I want. I want my mom's Jesus, not the one of you know, of religion. And so I just said, God, if you can come into my life, just help me. That's it. I'm going to I'm going to follow you. And that day would happen to be the same day that my mom passed away.

Sonny
Wow. Yeah. So I've tried my best, you know, we've tried our best. We're not perfect by any means, you know what I mean? But once you experience the goodness of God or you actually have the peace, it comes from the Lord. Like it'll never want to lose that, you know? And but we live in a life where we we we struggle, we go through things.

Sonny
And it's a, it's a journey every day. But I know that I have God with me, you know. And so God is part of our he's always been a part of our lives. Yes. Do the hardest times. Do the, you know, the worst times.

Mike
Yeah.

Sonny
You might just just recently he had like a mild heart attack. And because of the radiation from from cancer and all that stuff. And so he's dealing with physical stuff and you know, and for Mike to even this weekend when I called me and was like, man, I could tell he was, you know, it's just it was it was bad.

Sonny
But only God can give you the peace. And, you know, and that reassurance that I'm going to be okay regardless of the outcome, it's going to be okay, you know? So that's why we walk together.

Andy
Yeah. Amen. And you guys and walking together you do. And a miracle. I, you know, the moments of like, I, like I said, the moments of, change in my life was when Mike had, some words with me. And when you had some with me, too. I don't know if you remember, in London one time we were out partying and you shared some words with me one time, and I was like.

ANDY
Wow.

Andy
And, you know, sometimes when you when you speak the truth because the truth is within you and you speak that truth, you know it. That's when it penetrates and that's when you know, you just know. And that's when it, you know, leads you a certain way. And it never lets me, never let me. And both on the same kind of spectrum and the same concept.

Andy
Concept. The same topic. Yeah. That of the of the struggles that I was going through at the time. And I don't know if it was the Lord. Well, it definitely was the Lord's, you know, but also, you know, it was just like what needed to be said at that given point in time right then and there. Yeah. And that's what I'll always have, you know, the, that connection with you guys and so that's.

Sonny
The perfect example though, because even when we first met, you, like you just said it, like, dude, we were experiencing rock and roll for the first time. So we here we were. We have we love Jesus. We want to do what's right. We have the convictions of God, but yet we're here. We are thrown into the middle of rock and roll.

Sonny
So we're learning all these things, you know, and and here we are walking on the edge. So even when we saw you, it was like we were going through our own stuff, you know, and trying to resist certain temptations and not fall off, but still keep our faith, you know what I mean? Right? But even in those moments, bro, it's like, it doesn't matter.

Sonny
You don't have to be this, this perfection of Christianity. Yeah, but it was like God was still in our hearts. But here we were, living real life. Like, okay, hey, like, we're at the highest point, you know, we're in London, for goodness sakes. We're hanging out with audience and dad. And it was like, this is not reality, you know what I mean?

Sonny
But you're also still navigating through everything. But God, never he never leaves you, though, you know, it's just us trying to the to follow on the best that we can. But God is so good with us in that way. Impatient. So even if we had said something to you at that point, it wasn't like because we had it all figured out, it was just like it.

Mike
Was our spirit. You know, at the moment.

Andy
You know, and I think it leads us to where we're at now to, you know, because, you know, definitely, you know, it it made such a, impact in your music. Right. And miking your tattooing. Yeah. And then, you know, even to this.

Mike
Many conversations grow. Yeah.

Andy
Right, right. And, and and definitely for me to my sobriety, to my marriage, to my being a father, you know, like, you know, and, you know, I and I because I love rock and roll.

ANDY
Yeah.

Andy
And I love the lifestyle, you know, being a youngster and music and and hanging out in Santana with all these older guys, you know, they were like that, that I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Like, but that we're on the top of the game.

ANDY
Knowing you know. Yeah Dennis Chambers yeah. At the best of the best guys you.

Andy
Know and and they get on stage and you feel like you're. Yeah, you know, on some other space, but, you know, learning from them. But then to also meet other that we're going through the same thing at the same time, you know, and sharing wisdom was like really big. And that's what you guys did for me.

Andy
And, you know, and like you said, you guys rock together and and still you're here rocking together, and you have, you know, this new project that you're working on, you know, off point. Yeah. And, you know, I'm grateful, and very, very honored that you had asked me to come in, to, to to to participate, you know, and any time that I can, you know, have a piece of work done by MC and to hang out with you and talk with you.

Andy
Song, is, it's a blessing, you know? And so we did that, and we got to talk. But, if you would tell me a little bit about about off point and this and this project, I'm so excited about it. I want everybody to hear about it.

Mike
Yeah. When the when it came together, I was tattooing suntanned and, you know, I'm saying, tell me, dude, you can I have, I have a mobile studio now, right? It's a ft Mercedes RV. It's awesome. I know, I love it. It happened during Corona because I got tired of the, you know, stuff. And, I went out and bought it and got the licensing and all that, and it's all I'm doing.

Mike
Yeah. And so insane tunes. You can totally build a podcast in here. That's what Sully said. Podcast for me. And my voice like speaking voice from the transcript probably isn't the best thing before I listen to and listen. But I'm thinking about doing a YouTube channel. You know what I'm saying? I'm looking at all these things I'm trying to put on camera here, you know.

Mike
And then I looked at Sony. I said, you know what? Listen, I just started thinking, honestly, I'm being honest. I started thinking about a feature. And you know how long he's been on Sangin? How long? And then tattooing an hour on my friend. And, really was just, interesting. I mean, selling first, I said, why don't we do a TV show that's the audience approached to do a TV show a long time ago when we were on tour.

Mike
And I turned it down, especially in the first tattoo show. And I turned down the chance. It wasn't what I was looking for. Okay, you know, it's drama. It was, you know, only one story. You know, he's going for. No, no, no no, no.

Sonny
Then all those other shows just blew up.

Mike
Yeah, right. And I turned him down. I said, you know what? I do a show on me on my terms, right? You know, and our terms are more of lifting other people up. You know, it's not so much about us. I mean, our relationship is a is a is a crux in the show, right? You know, once it's about dealing with other people that we know, like Moon and Rey Mysterio and, and others, other musicians that we know.

Sonny
Telling their story.

Mike
As well. Yeah. And then and yeah, yeah, yeah. year from there you.

Sonny
You, you mentioned that which was kind of the was the idea behind this is that because my kid mentioned to me, you know, that, you know, obviously all these years you go to a tattoo shop and the person's, they're letting out their feelings. And he gave me the whole scientific background about, you know, all these chemicals in your body.

Sonny
Yeah. All this stuff that happens when someone's actually in this vulnerable position and in pain as well with the tattoo, but, you know, they just they tend to just be vulnerable and share their heart with the tattoo, you know, tattoo. And so he was like, yeah, yeah. He's like that's these like I'm part tattoo, part psychiatrist, you know, and counselor.

Sonny
And so he's been able to share with people and and listen as well you know. So I thought that was such a cool idea. But then we just started talking about, you know, especially with all the, the amazing people that we've been able to meet over the years, like, yeah, you know, why not get their story? Obviously they like, we share the art of tattoo and the culture.

Sonny
It's part of who we are. And we were like, why can't we, you know, heal tattoo people and and I'll ask them questions is simple that we're no, I'm not a journalist. Nothing like that. You know, don't have. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was just more but real stuff because since I've built relationships with people, it's not just, hey, tell us about this record and tell us about this.

Sonny
It's just called surface. It's more like we're friends. We love each other. We trust each other. Even with you, with your interviewers, it's a lot more intimate than you would just talk with rolling Stone or something. You know what I mean? Or whatever magazine. Because we know each other and we trust each other and we want to relay the story that is life changing.

Sonny
You know, your story is powerful. If we're tattooing a friend, we know that there's a part of their story that's powerful, that people might not always hear all the time because they're talking about business or work or whatever, you know? But this time it's more of them, you know, chance to share their heart. And obviously faith is a big thing to us.

Sonny
So we want we always want to incorporate that because we do believe that there's redemptive power, like in in Jesus, in God, you know, without being cheesy or not being religious. And we don't want to be a Christian show. We want this is real life. Yes. You know, we've been living real life for so long, but also the relationships of the people that we have is real.

Sonny
And it's not just about a Christian circle or bubble. It's about, you know, real people, their stories, and even whether they're believers or not. I want to know their story. I want to know where they're at, you know?

Mike
And where was our character was the kind of people we are. You know, we're very welcoming, you know? I mean, we're watchful mode. I'm very welcoming. So we can meet somebody that day and thing like, for example, me. Oh, yeah. You know, and that's why it's so, so easy, you know, like people like Pat Perez, the golfer.

Mike
Right. Yeah. Think we're going to have him and

Andy
You know, so you could like. Yeah.

Sonny
Yeah. That's the whole point.

ANDY
Of joining in.

Mike
Yeah. We're going to go on to Scottsdale and I'll play a little golf interview and talk.

ANDY
To.

Mike
Some, you know.

Sonny
And we feel that plenty of musicians already and friends of ours that aren't necessarily believers, but they have such an amazing story and we get a chance to talk about those things. You know, I've, I've asked people that I know that, that they're not believers, but we even ask them what? So you what would you would you tell us something like, I know you probably grew up in a religious home, and they get a chance to explain some of the downfalls of that and some of the stuff that they've gone through that turned them off to God.

Sonny
And then we get to have real conversations.

Andy
We need to.

ANDY
Talk about it. Yeah, yeah.

Sonny
This is the perfect time. He's getting out. But he was getting this whole back done at the time and it's like he was shaking, bro. And he's you know, but you get to ask real questions about you know yeah obviously in rock and roll you know there's so many rock and roll stories of, you know, sobriety, addiction going through stuff.

Andy
Death inspires.

ANDY
You. Yeah. And everything.

Sonny
So why do you write music? You know. Yeah.

Mike
I seen so many today are changing, getting sober. There's there's so many stories right now of writers are like, my life has changed. And even going to Jesus, not every one of them, but a lot. I'm seeing a lot, of personalities. Known personalities.

Sonny
Well, especially in our age group. I think everybody has kind of lived through that rebellion of life and their, you know, whatever their s, s, whatever. And, you know, going after the world and and now, you know, the older we get, we have a little bit more, you know, maturity and perspective. And then we start to think about this.

Sonny
You mentioned earlier like the things that are important. My family, you know, I mean, my kids, my wife, my health, I'm getting older, you know, and you start thinking about eternity. You start thinking about your soul, you start thinking about all kinds of stuff. So, like Mike said, a lot of our friends in the industry are just kind of we've all gotten that age of of growth.

Sonny
I would just say we're getting older and we're trying to figure out what, what means the most to us, you know? And a lot of that comes with, you know, a clear head and, you know, trying to balance it all out.

Mike
We want to showcase, you know, high quality tattooing next month on traveling. Yeah. And meeting up with these people that we know and and system journey, you know and that's what it is. And star point journey. Yeah. The reason we call it off point, you know is because there's no specific topic is unscripted. Yeah. Yeah. When you meet somebody and and you click with them and you're like, you know, I talked to that guy until like four in the morning.

Mike
Talk about one thing. You check all the time, you know. And that's why we say month.

Andy
In fact what an amazing idea and concept. And, you know, I just think I just think it's perfect. It's perfect. And it's also inspiring for and exciting for people to watch, you know? So like when, when do you think, any, any idea of, of, of when things start like, you have a date or something.

Mike
I think this year looking really hoping.

Sonny
Yeah, yeah. We've we've I mean, obviously Mike's always tattooing. I'm, I'm on the road. We have our own stuff that we got going on, but this is a passion project for us. And so we've been, with yourself. We've filmed our friends and people that we love and respect. And so we put together, like, teaser reels like that.

Sonny
And so we're talking to the powers that be, and hopefully we can pick up something.

Mike
Yeah. See where we got the phone?

Sonny
Pilot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike
And, you know that there are some people right now that have seen some stuff really dark in some places, and they're very interested in it.

Sonny
We'll see.

Mike
It's no wonder.

Sonny
We would love to do this. I would love to do this, you know. Yeah. You know, I don't know if I'll ever be full time quite yet because we.

Mike
Of course.

Sonny
But I would love to make this part of my full time schedule, you know, at some point, because totally. I think, you know, just being with Mike and doing this, it's just, I mean, it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Gives us a reason, no reason, just to be ourselves.

Andy
And I think so many people right now, as you said, I kind of, we're at that point in time of their life. And then also for, for, for the, for the kids to, to hear the stories the, you know, the those, you know, people going through the revelation of life, you know, and stuff and, you know, it's, and redemption, sobriety.

Andy
Yeah. You know, and then, you know, just and then to watch real nice tattoo come out, you know, if you know, like, I know you've been you you fixed some amazing tattoos and make them into some amazing art pieces and, and then to have someone like you, sunny, you know, you know, talking back and forth and sharing, you know, your walk and stuff.

Andy
To me, I think this is the kind of stuff that we really need to highlight, you know, off point. Yeah. And we have to do things to, to bring, you know, a lot of attention and, strength, you know, to, to, to get the word out, get this happening and have this be something that you can spend most of your time.

Andy
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know.

Mike
When you think the.

Sonny
World I think the world's ready for it to a lot of, a lot of the people that we've approached. I mean, obviously there's there's plenty of tattoo stories and shows and stuff like that. But I think once they saw, the other side of that, I mean, obviously tattoos are beautiful, Mike's tattoos are beautiful, but no one wants to sit and watch, you know, minutes, minutes of somebody get a statue.

Sonny
That's what I. Yeah. And but they I think what they're seeing from the guests that we've had so far is this story of redemption, you know, is this story of, of life and what they're going to end. And because the people that we have interviewed, they've they do have some life experience and they, they do carry wisdom with them.

Sonny
And so when they're explaining a lot of stuff, I think that these networks have caught on to that and they're like, okay, obviously we love tattoo. It's part of today's culture more than ever. But it's these life changing stories that that are this was going to change.

Mike
Things come to.

Sonny
It. And so that's, you know, and so I think even we're learning as we're building is like, okay, we definitely gotta make this more about, you know, this life changing story. You know what I mean? And get get these, these stories.

Andy
I'm excited to see where it lands.

ANDY
Yeah. Let's do it. You know, it's going to.

Andy
Yeah, it's going to land. I'm excited to see, you know, who who picks it up because they'll they'll they'll pour into it. Yeah. You know, and then it'll just, you.

Mike
Know, I mean, one of the important things for me is being on the show is what we're going to be able to do with the people we care about, you know? Yeah, for me, it's a it's and soft home for kids with cancer, you know?

Andy
Okay. That's right. That's right. And son you have a foundation too, right.

Sonny
Yeah. Of the Sunny Sandoval's Youth of the Nation Foundation. It's very similar to to what you're doing. But, you know, obviously this is keeping it in my neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of, it serves with my. My heart is in the next five years to actually get a full building and like, a YMCA, but more focused on music.

Sonny
You know.

Mike
Anything for.

Sonny
That? Yeah. And and have these kids, you know, come in and be able to, you know, jump on an amazing drum set, get behind, you know, guitar cabinet and sit on the piano and, and lessons and all this stuff, you know, for free. So we've, we're tying that in, you know, the charity aspect. And also with Mike and his personal connection to being a youngster and going through cancer and radiation, all that stuff.

Sonny
Same thing. Mike has a vision to, he explains, it is, you know, giving these kids, like, the.

Mike
Cancer.

Sonny
Day. Yeah, like being a kid for a day because of all the stuff that he had to go through, you know, not feeling normal or, you know, or even his own stories of being made fun of, you know, when he when he was going through a lot of that stuff. And so he just wants his hardest for us to create opportunities, even for these kids, just whatever they want to do, you know, to just be a kid and.

Mike
Experiencing them forget.

Sonny
Yeah. Going through and there's so much to experience. And so Kyle to and we have so many different connections and we want to make, you know, these young people feel special.

Andy
Anything I can do to help them.

Sonny
Always.

Andy
Projects and those fundraisers.

Mike
For them to a concern and something oh.

ANDY
That's.

Andy
You know.

Sonny
Then I could be a kid for a day. Just I just.

ANDY
Go you it's it's really. Yeah. Believe.

Andy
You know what? I love being able to wake up in the morning and feel like a kid today. It's, you know, so excited to go just listen to Carlos play, man. Oh, it's like it's, Yeah.

Mike
I mean, for.

Andy
Me, it's just you. Yes, yes. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I know, me too. Me too. Yeah. He's going to be all right. You know, he's going to be all right. And, you know, you just sometimes you just. When life happens, you just have to, like, focus on you and heal yourself. Even though, you know, it's hard for us musicians when you got all that, you book all those dates, you know, and even with me with, like, getting sick, it's like I don't allow myself to get sick.

Andy
Yeah, because I.

Mike
Know you're always wrapped up, as.

Andy
Always. Yeah. And I get my mind. I don't want to, like, let myself get sick. So, you know, I'm. It takes because you can't we. We've talked about that.

Sonny
It's like a fear of.

ANDY
Oh yeah.

Mike
It's like, I don't want to talk about time.

ANDY
Well, you could be sick as a.

Sonny
Dog, you know, even be a guitar player because, you know, you're.

ANDY
Coughing. Your legs don't play.

Sonny
But for us, it's like I'm when I'm on tour, the whole time I'm on tour, I'm constantly stressing that I don't want to get sick. I want to get.

Andy
It's a stress or.

Sonny
Try not to talk. And you always feel like you're being rude or, you know, not social.

ANDY
What's that? You know.

Sonny
I've seen singers actually wear signs that say I what some them like I, I can't talk saving my voice and so you just know like okay, they're not being a jerk. They just. You really can't.

Andy
Talk. You know, lately I've been really going back to the store.

Mike
That's all. I'm the.

ANDY
Charge. Oh, dude.

Sonny
I always got my TiVo. I got cough drops in my pocket.

ANDY
You know, like like give. You just keep the keep it warm here. Yeah.

Andy
And and and, you.

Mike
Know, every.

Andy
Everything else could be like, you know, I could be in a tank top. But as long as I'm warm here, I'm keeping my my voice. Yeah. I've been actually succeeding with that.

ANDY
Like, it's good, you know.

Sonny
Do you wake up on the bus every day? Like, just like, what is it? Ooh.

ANDY
Ooh. This just like, well, makes you start doing it. Yeah.

Sonny
Just make sure you're clear. And nothing's like clog.

ANDY
Everybody knows it's. Then once you sit here and stuff.

Andy
They know it's me making noises. Oh, you know, and I do.

ANDY
Yeah, yeah.

Mike
All the time I know all the time.

Andy
All the time. Making those funny noises, man. Well, you know, and so. So now, I just want to say, like, or ask, like, what's next? Like, right now, like you're, you're going on tour.

Sonny
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have, I'll be in Europe, in March. April. I actually have a book release. February th. Book. Yeah, yeah, super excited about that. So I'll be doing some speaking engagements and book promo throughout February and March, then go to Europe. And then stuff's already lining up for somebody if we're.

Andy
In Europe together at the same time, we'll be there in June. You're going to be there in June.

Sonny
Might be going back in June.

Andy
We've got to see it for for the schedule.

Sonny
Yeah. Yeah, I know I was telling you I wanted to we wanted to go out to, Vegas. When you're out there to catch a show for sure.

Andy
Yeah, %. You know.

Sonny
I've already told, because we told

Mike
Told us.

Sonny
And see us out there. He's he's got a residency in Vegas. He's got a residency residency. Okay, so he wants to go.

Mike
I about to send to.

Sonny
Stereo Rey Mysterio send dogs out there. We were like, let's all get together and go see. See the guys play.

Andy
Oh, man, that would be major. What a cool room that'll be.

ANDY
Oh, yeah. Oh the those. Yeah. And the vacuum. Love that.

Mike
I'll bring the.

Sonny
Ring. That would be awesome. Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely out there too.

ANDY
Oh yes. Yes.

Andy
And Mike, you're going to continue, you know, tattooing here, you know, with the mobile.

ANDY
Oh yeah.

Andy
Well we, we, we got here and stuff.

ANDY
And playing.

Mike
Golf and chanting yesterday. I mean, I got in the hospital on one and.

Sonny
Then he's tattooed already. I'm like, take it.

ANDY
Easy, bro.

Andy
Oh, brother man.

Sonny
You just told me you're flying out. He's already he always flies over to East Coast Oklahoma and stuff and he'll set up and then so do you guys.

Andy
Plan to get down.

Sonny
Tattoo for a month.

Andy
Straight? Well, yeah. Before you go though, man, let's see if we can get a golf game in.

Mike
Oh yeah.

ANDY
Yeah, yeah. Do you golf, Sonny?

Sonny
No, bro, but I can, I can drive. I mean, golf cart.

ANDY
Golf cart.

Mike
Oh, no, not for sure. I have an entire procedure coming on the nd. Okay. And then I don't fit the two stems.

Andy
Do you need to wait for a little while?

Mike
Oh, it's nine days to have a tournament, nine days on that. And so I'm tournaments and listen and just give it a week. That's for kicks and tournament. Nine days.

Andy
You let me know. Man. I don't want to like I'm good.

Mike
That's that I'm good bro.

Andy
Yeah. After that okay cool. Yeah. After that.

Mike
So yeah, after the first assembly.

Andy
We'll be praying for you and we'll be praying for you, man. You know. Thank you. As.

Mike
Well, you know, it's been.

ANDY
Yeah. It'll be good.

Andy
Like life is is such a blessing. And, you know, I was so excited this whole weekend to have you guys here and to talk with you guys and stuff and, to share about, you know, our life, our unity, our our history together. And then about off point and then sunny about your book too. So very excited.

Andy
Thanks. You know, to help, you know, share the story. Of Sonny's life, working. Everyone find that.

Sonny
Online or everything everywhere. They sell store, books online and then.

Mike
Probably on Amazon.

Sonny
And, yeah, it's already there. You can get preorders and stuff now, but, I'll be I'll be actually doing a reading on the ship. Oh, okay. I got a couple different engagements, and, I'll be able to sell them on to, like, I worked out a deal where I could just bring a bunch of books and I could sell them my merch table and all that kind of stuff.

Sonny
So it's going to get out there, man. I mean, it's just a it's an easy, simple. This is a fast read of just kind of my life from, you know, where we grew up. Yeah. To, you know, my mom passing away and and finding out how awesome God is, you know, and including them in my life and then and then being in rock and roll and the temptations of all that.

Sonny
And just it's just it's a cool, simple read, man. But I hope it actually, you know, helps people, you know.

Andy
Also like to, to say, hey to Ryan Reese out there to.

ANDY
Yeah.

Andy
This he also is someone who, you know, who I met. And then, you know, you have the whosoever you've met and stuff with him as well and stuff. And that was a big part of, of, of of my, you know, coming back to Christ, man, you know, so like, you know, it was a blessing out there.

Andy

Mike
A shout out to Daniel.

ANDY
Daniel as.

Andy
Well. And, you know. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, I guess, and, and so where can, people go to find out about your guys's, you know, social media and,

Mike
Well, we have all point TV on Instagram.

Sonny
Okay, and all that stuff.

Mike
And then we have a YouTube channel that we just found out, you know. Okay. And we're going to put some, like, behind the scenes things on there.

Andy
Okay.

Mike
We don't want to run against the show anyway.

ANDY
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Andy
We'll make sure to put, you know, on on our, you know, our YouTube link, you know, here all the information where people can come check out everything, you know, you know the book off point. You guys are social and everything. So and then also you know and Andy vargas.com we'll make sure that I update all of that everybody you know but but yeah so this is all on the, on the YouTube channel Andy Vargas official.

Andy
And then we'll just make sure that we put all that information helped push that out there. But, thanks. Well, guys, you know, I don't want to take too much more of your time. I know you guys are really busy, but, but thank you for coming out here. And, you know, I thank the Lord for you guys, man.

Sonny
Thanks for all the YouTube.

Andy
And for your lives and for the the fathers that you are, you know, the people that you are to the community, to the youth out there, to our peers, people of, you know, our our age, you know, that are, you know, that are going through things that, that, you know, we we learn when we learn.

Sonny
Yeah.

Andy
Right. We learn when we learn. And and at the end of the day, you know, those people that learn, like myself, I learn by by example, by watching others my age younger, older, you know, whomever and stuff. So you guys come here to share.

Mike
People always watching.

Andy
Yeah. Always watching. They're always watching, you know? And, you guys are your guys's walk is a testament and but, you.

Mike
Know, it's, it's some people that come to me, and that's why I introduce them to Sonny and, or other people interested in selling this and this and that. Like, you know what I'm going to. Sonny commands respect it without asking for it. Just because of where his heart is anyways. Yes. And like,

Andy
Yeah. That's that's all. That's almost just like Carlos too. Like meaning that, you know, he just, you know, the just, you know, the walk. The walk. Yeah. You know, there's, you know, Carlos always goes like this. What does that mean? That means there's no this and.

ANDY
Yeah. Yeah. It's right here.

Mike
That's right. So, you know.

ANDY
It's hard for people.

Andy
To do, you know.

Mike
A straight line, bro.

Andy
Straight line, straight line. But, again, thank you guys so much. Thank you. And, yeah. And, and really excited about to see what what the future has to hold.

ANDY
Yeah, yeah.

Sonny
Thank you for having us, brother.

Andy
Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you.